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I'm having an issue clear coating. I know everyone loves Envirotex, but I do not like the ultra glossy always wet look, so I have no interest in using it. My issue is I used white laser waterslide decals and let them dry for 24 hrs (much more than necessary) then I gave 2 light coats of Krylon Crystal Clear Coat before cutting them (24 hrs drying time between each). I then applied to my pedals and sprayed 3 thin layers (again giving 24 hrs to dry between each). The problem is the black on my decals seems to be fading. I applied them to black pedals and the 2 colors were very close. Now the decal is much lighter. The clear coat says you can use it on pretty much anything, but they definitely seem to have faded a bit, which is really frustrating b/c I can't afford to re-do the decals and clear coats. Has anyone run into this and maybe have some words of hope?

Forgot to mention I used red label micro sol when I applied the decals.

I'm not real sure here PG. My only guess is the microsol interacted somehow by penetrating through the lacquer but even saying that I don't know how it would lighten the color. I have an inkjet printer so maybe someone with a laser printer can comment.

I can say that the times my lacquer coat wasn't thick enough I rubbed off some of the color when applying the decal and when trying to work out the bubbles, but again that is ink.

I sure don't know how you can fix it short of stripping it down and starting over and then not using the microsol to see what happens. Wish I could help more.

You're making me nervous with this information. I was about to use laser decals, Krylon, and possibly Microsol. I didn't think laser decals had to be sealed before applying. I also thought Krylon and Microsol were a safe choice. My decals will be on a white pedal. Is there a better option or are your results not typical?

I'm in this same boat. Anyone have any experience with this?

hi. Anyone have any insight? Should I post this elsewhere? I don't want to have to start over, but if I need to then I guess I don't have a choice. I'd appreciate any input.

You're posting in the right spot. Got any pics? Just curious how much fading you are talking about. Sometimes pics help, although in this case it may not with why it faded.

Are you 100% sure it is the color and not some kind of issue with the lacquer that makes it look like the black is faded? Just grasping at straws here.

I do not have a laser, but use an inkjet. My process goes like this

-Print decal, let dry about 15 - 30 minutes
-apply first coat of clearcoat to decal, let dry 5 - 10 minutes and apply 3 - 4 coats
-soak decal and apply, wait 30 mintes or so to dry pushing out any bubbles
-trim holes in label
-apply 8 - 10 coats ( or till you are happy ) of clearcoat with 15 - 20 dry time between
-let pedal dry for 24 - 36 hours before applying pots, jackes etc..


Looks like this

Thanks guys. Comfort - Are you using white decals at all? Mine are white b/c they are full face going on top of a black pedal so I need the images to show. I don't know if it's the micro-sol, the type of decal paper I used, or the clear coat but I noticed definite fading the more I clear coated (but this was also after they had micro-sol applied). I also give 24 hrs drying time between everything to ensure it is fully cured. Am I better off just doing envirotex? I don't want to b/c it is so thick and will pillow around the holes, and it's a mess, but I do like that it will give it good protection. The thin clear coats so far are not protecting very well.

TN - I'll try to post a pic later when I'm off work, but yeah, it is definitely fading. When I put the decals on (which already had 2 thin layers of clear so they wouldn't chip when I cut them out) the black on the decals matched the black on the pedal. I applied my micro-sol, waited 24 hrs, clear coat, waited 24, clear coat, waited 24, and then at this point I noticed the black was fading. It could have happened anytime after I applied the decals to the pedal (b/c I checked decals I did not use that are still on the paper w/ 2 clear coats and they do not appear faded) but I just didn't noticed until after the micro-sol and 2 clear coats. I'm just frustrated b/c I know I'm going to have to do this again and I don't want there to be a 3rd time, so I'm trying to get as much advice as I can, but I'll try to post something later so you can see what I mean. The black looks more like static now b/c it's spotty and some of the spots are dark and some are light.

As a side note, my clear decals did not fade at all, and they went through the same process. It was the same brand of paper as the white so I don't get why this is happened.

I use both clear and white. The OD2 is a clear decal and the Rat is a white background. I do not use micro-sol.

That is indeed very strange. I have used both white and clear with no issues like that but I don't apply microsol to anything but the edges around the pedal and the holes. I barely get up on the edges on the sides of the pedal but I've never noticed any fading. Now you make me want to go back and look at a couple of black pedals.

If I was to do it again, I would not put the microsol on there. For white backing I really find it doesn't do much due to the thickness.

This was a black on black one I did where I put it around the edges using white backings. Of course I used Envirotex. Hard to tell in pics but I don't see fading or spoting. I'll take a look at home on some of mine just for kicks though.

You know if you don't like the looks of the epoxy, don't use it. Try to figure out the issue on your lacquer. I think someone on here has sanded their Enviro to give it a matte look, maybe Captain Peyote, although I could have that wrong. I have no idea how it looks though. I'm thinking maybe using 2,000 grit wet sand paper and wet sand it. That could be a look you like. As you stated though, the Envirotex has its own mess and then learning curve and work to do on it, such as trimming etc....

Would someone who has used a laser printer help this poor guy out I had to do it PG. It was just hanging there for the taking

I think pics will help here, but some thoughts: I hate microsol, I know others here will disagree, but it never did anything good for me, either for clear or white decals, and has ruined a couple of paint jobs on me too. I never noticed any kind of difference in terms of the edge of the decal blending better. Especially if you are doing a full face decal, the edge of the decal is going to be hidden by the curve and edge of the enclosure.

Also I ususally use ink jet, but 2 light coats of clear before applying would not be enough for me. I ususally do 2 very light coats to seal and set the ink, then 2 more heavier coats to really waterproof it for application. Also when I did the white paper, I did one extra coat after cutting the decal to seal the edges. In general I have had much better results from clear decal than white.

Another note is that you need to be very careful that you do not stretch the decal as you are applying it. If you do this you will break the seal created by your initial clear coats and allow the water to penetrate through to the ink.

Also for u2-1980, I havent used lazer decals, but I would seal them anyways. You need to be able to touch and handle the decal a bit to get it in place, and to get the water/bubbles out from underneath. I find that piece of how much you handle the decal, and how you get your bubbles out (and how long you take to do it) is key to good results. You need to be as fast as possible, and touch it as little as possible. I use little make up sponges, start in the middle and "roll" towards the edges. I try to never go over the same spot more than twice. I have also noticed, that I wont neccesarilly see the results of too much handling or stretching of the decal until I apply clear or envirotex (and btw, i am not sure enviro would for sure lead to better results, it made one decal I stretched worse as it warms up pretty good when mixed, and runs off the edges taking flaking ink with it).

However I don't think anything is going to help your existing decaled pedal. I think your choices are strip it or live with it there. For your remaining ones I would try giving it another good coat of clear after you have cut it, not using the microsol, and make sure you dont stretch them and see how it goes. Just know that getting good results in finishing seems to be one of the more challenging parts for everyone, I sure know it is for me. I have been doing envrotex for a while now as I like the end result, but man it is a giant PITA, and has lots of drawbacks too (dust, muther f#$#$#ing dust, and cat hairs damn it). I am going to blow the cash on a powder coating rig here before long to see how that goes.

good points ductTapeRiot.

Question for poor guy, are your enclosures painted ( by you ) or powdercoated ? Perhaps paint is causing the reaction ?

I did a control test and I don't know if micro-sol is the culprit b/c even some decals that I did not apply but were sprayed with the Krylon are fading too. I don't know if it's the paper or the Krylon. Here is an image of the bottom left corner. It was the best I could do to show the issue. See how the black looks light and spotty? It was the same color as the enclosure when I first put it on.

What brand of paper did you use?

Hmm, well from the photo it looks like this is not just affecting the edge of the decal, but permiating throughout. The krylon must be permiating the decal paper somehow and affecting either the toner or the decal paper itself. The only thing I can think is to experiment with different clear coat and or paper and see if you get any improvement. Oh, or you could try a different printer if that is an option. Is it only the black that is showing this effect?? What brand of decal paper are you using? You could also try a specific Decal set spray, I know Testors makes one. All this is going to take time and $ of course.

Another thing, I dont know what your whole decal looks like, but if you are only using the black as a border you could try cutting the label right up to the colored part?

I need to check the brand, but I remembered I also used canned air to blow away debris before spraying. I'm wondering if that is partly it. Do decals fade or yellow with encirotex? I'm starting to think that's my best option.

Hmm, ya I suppose some kind of solvent or something like that in the canned air could be affecting it? I think though that it sounds more like this is just a result of the clear coat being applied to the label and it is disolving/lifting/messing with the toner and/or paper in some way.

I still do spray my lables with clear (4 coats like I said above, very light, and to heavier) when using envirotex. Spraying the clear on the labels is about protecting them during the process of applying them to the enclosure (when they will be wet, and being handled), and to protect the ink from whatever (presumably) heavier clear coat you are applying after the label is on, so I am not sure if Envirotex will really help you out here, and you also said you were not really a fan of the super high gloss of envirotex. I would try switching paper and/or clear coat brands first if I were you?

Envirotex itself has a very slight yellowish tinge to it, that I have only ever been able to see when it is VERY thick (much thicker than we use on pedals), and on a whitish background. I have never poured it over an non clear sealed decal so I dont know if it would fade it, but it does get quite warm and is flowing off the face of the pedal and down over the sides, so may affect the ink if applied directly on top of the decal.

Same here in that I can only see a yellowish tint on white pedals. Don't detect it at all on my other colors.

If you do go this route only do one pedal at a time until you get the process down. Much easier to babysit the process.

Hey CP. Do you ever have any issues with chipping? I have heard others say that spray is prone to chipping. Also, what brands do you use (primer, paint, and protector)?

I use powder coated enclosures from Mammoth and and Krylon clearcoat ( glossy or matte ) from Lowes, Home Depot, Michaels etc.. and I have not had any issues with clearcoat chipping.

I gave up on the primer / painting route as I had chips and the effort and time required were just not worth it to me.

You had chips AFTER clear coating?
How many coats of primer and paint did you use?

I am not your paint expert by any stretch. I tried it twice and it chipped. What brand, how manycoats etc... I never chased down. I just went powder and never looked back. Maybe some of the guys who paint can chime in here on techniques.

Thank you. Any painters have any input?

I paint mine but I don't gig and am OCD about my stuff. I also use Envirotex now. But, when I was lacquering I know that sure is not going to protect anything from dropping, kicking or whatever a pedal. I can't imagine how many coats you would have to put on there. Primer just helps to hold the paint on. I don't know that it keeps the paint from chipping any more.

Can you elaborate as to how you are getting chipping? What exactly did you do to chip them/it?